‘It’s not anti-intellectualism, but it’s anti-exclusion,’ James Payne says of his YouTube tutorials.Brian David Stevens/Supplied
When James Payne, a former London art dealer, started a YouTube channel during COVID lockdown, he thought 100 friends might follow him. Today he has 1.8 million subscribers who tune in for his 15-minute explanations of art works as beloved as Vincent van Gogh’s Starry Night or as difficult as Mark Rothko’s abstract murals created for New York’s Seagram Building and now displayed at the Tate Modern in London.
Payne believes the secret is plain language: He offers simple, accessible explanations of the historical context and enduring fame of the best-known art works in the world.
The British publisher Thames & Hudson has now issued a book version: Great Art Explained features 30 works of art from a 12th-century Chinese scroll to Claude Monet’s Water Lilies, a Frida Kahlo self-portrait and Jean-Michel Basquiat’s Hollywood Africans. The Globe spoke to Payne about his crusade against art speak.
Payne uses Claude Monet’s Water Lilies series, shown here at Musée National de l’Orangerie in Paris, to talk about the artist’s reaction to the First World War.RICCARDO MILANI/Getty Images
Where did you learn to talk about art?
I left school at 16. I spent almost all of my life in tourism, taking North American students on educational tours around Europe. I would take them into museums and talk to them about art. I realized that 15 minutes was more than enough for most people to talk about the Mona Lisa.
It’s all a little bit fortuitous that I ended up learning how to talk about art succinctly and clearly, and avoiding obtuse language.
But you did go to art college?
I went to art school when I was 37. I did five years. You don’t really learn much art history when you’re studying to be a fine artist. I started my MA and within about six months, I just thought I don’t want to be an artist. This is not for me. I didn’t think I was very good. I’ve always said more artists should realize that they’re not as good as they think they are. But I was really good at talking about art.
I started curating a lot. I opened a gallery. I had a gallery for six years in East London in Shoreditch. I used to say to the artists: “Write me a press release, the best you can.” We had a lot of kids straight out of college, they’re 27, 28 or something, and I’d say, “I have no idea – and I studied art for five years – what you’re talking about. Let’s start this with: This exhibition has five paintings.” Go back to the basics because the greatest writers in the world, they’re not so obtuse.
I studied all the great art philosophers. I love reading about art in that way. But I’ve always felt that it puts a barrier for people who want to learn more about art. It can be a kind of gatekeeping tool. If I talk about chiaroscuro when I’m talking about Leonardo da Vinci, then I explain what chiaroscuro is.
It’s not anti-intellectualism, but it’s anti-exclusion.
How did the channel take off?
Great Art Explained includes paintings as historic as Leonardo Da Vinci’s Mona Lisa, shown here at the Louvre in Paris in 2025.BERTRAND GUAY/Getty Images
It started very simply with works that I know a lot about. So Mona Lisa. Starry Night, that’s how it started. After the second video, Stephen Fry tweeted saying he was a fan of the channel. And in those days, tweets were kind of important. It really took off after my fourth video, which was Mark Rothko’s Seagram murals. I think the reason I love art so much is because of those murals. I discovered them when I was 14 or 15 on a school trip.
If I did a film about Banksy, it would be enormous, but I would never do a film about Banksy. I have to want to spend time with these works of art and love them. I did realize that Mark Rothko and Jean-Michel Basquiat are super controversial for some people. You know: “My child could do that.” And when people put angry comments, it gets engagement and the algorithm gets fed. It’s really sad, but that’s not going to stop me.
Payne fell in love with art as a teenager when he encountered Mark Rothko’s Seagram Murals, shown here at Tate Britain, but now on display at Tate Modern.John Phillips/Getty Images
The title is Great Art Explained. How do you define great?
I like the fact it’s a contentious title. It puts people’s backs up a little bit. Once you delve into the book, you realize that my chapter on Monet is not really about those paintings. It’s about what was going on in that period, so it’s a way of telling the story. I wanted Faith Ringgold in there because it was a way of talking about the Harlem Renaissance.
My concept is to give people the information and they can decide for themselves whether it’s a great work of art, but I do think a great work of art is all about time – if things last.
I was in a Montreal public gallery recently where there’s an accessibility initiative that includes very simple wall texts, about Grade 9 reading level or lower. Do you think that’s a good idea?
I think most young people are not getting their information from walls and galleries, they’re getting their information online. Anything that helps people get a grip on what art is about or gives them a lift up is a good idea. Having said that, I come from a very working-class background, no art involved in my family at all, and I discovered Mark Rothko on my own.
On Michelangelo’s La Pietà: ‘It’s my favourite work of art,’ Payne says. ‘It’s about motherhood.’Gregorio Borgia/The Associated Press
Do you have a favourite work in the book?
I think my best chapter is on [Michelangelo’s] La Pietà.
It’s my favourite work of art, it’s in my top three. I’m an atheist, there’s never been God in my family. I find it the most moving piece of sculpture because it’s about motherhood.
This interview has been edited and condensed.
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